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@ -61,21 +61,70 @@ code or tried it yet, but here goes. --[[Joey]]
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seems like it will become a pain. Everyone will need to come up
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with their own automation for it, and then there's the question
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of how to automate it when uploading attachments.
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> There's already a script (ikiwiki-album) to populate a git
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> checkout with skeleton "viewer" pages; I was planning to make a
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> specialized CGI interface for albums after getting feedback from
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> you (since the requirements for that CGI interface change depending
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> on the implementation). I agree that this is ugly, though. -s
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* With each viewer page having next/prev links, I can see how you
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were having the scalability issues with ikiwiki's data structures
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earlier!
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> Yeah, I think they're a basic requirement from a UI point of view
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> though (although they don't necessarily have to be full wikilinks).
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> -s
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>> I think that with the new dependency types system, the dependencies for
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>> these can be presence dependencies, which will probably help with
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>> avoiding rebuilds of a page if the next/prev page is changed.
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>> (Unless you use img to make the thumbnails for those links, then it
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>> would rebuild the thumbnails anyway. Have not looked at the code.) --[[Joey]]
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* And doesn't each viewer page really depend on every other page in the
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same albumsection? If a new page is added, the next/prev links
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may need to be updated, for example. If so, there will be much
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unnecessary rebuilding.
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> albumsections are just a way to insert headings into the flow of
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> photos, so they don't actually affect dependencies.
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>
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> One non-obvious constraint of ikiwiki's current design is that
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> everything "off-page" necessary to build any page has to happen
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> at scan time, which has caused a few strange design decisions,
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> like the fact that each viewer controls what album it's in.
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>
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> It's difficult for the contents of the album to just be a
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> pagespec, like for inline, because pagespecs can depend on
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> metadata, which is gathered in arbitrary order at scan time;
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> so the earliest you can safely apply a pagespec to the wiki
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> contents to get a concrete list of pages is at rebuild time.
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>
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> (This stalled my attempt at a trail plugin, too.) -s
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>> Not sure I understand why these need to look at pagespecs at scan time?
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>> Also, note that it is fairly doable to detect if a pagespec uses such
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>> metadata. Er, I mean, I have a cheezy hack in `add_depends` now that does
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>> it to deal with a similar case. --[[Joey]]
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* One thing I do like about having individual pages per image is
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that they can each have their own comments, etc.
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> Yes; also, they can be wikilinked. I consider those to be
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> UI requirements. -s
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* Seems possibly backwards that the albumimage controls what album
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an image appears in. Two use cases -- 1: I may want to make a locked
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album, but then anyone who can write to any other page on the wiki can
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add an image to it. 2: I may want an image to appear in more than one
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album. Think tags. So it seems it would be better to have the album
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directive control what pages it includes (a la inline).
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> See note above about pagespecs not being very safe early on.
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> You did merge my inline-with-pagenames feature, which is safe to use
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> at scan time, though.
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* Putting a few of the above thoughts together, my ideal album system
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seems to be one where I can just drop the images into a directory and
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have them appear in the album index, as well as each generate their own wiki
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@ -84,3 +133,124 @@ code or tried it yet, but here goes. --[[Joey]]
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themselves.) This is almost pointing toward making the images first-class
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wiki page sources. Hey, it worked for po! :) But the metadata and editing
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problems probably don't really allow that.
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> Putting a JPEG in the web form is not an option from my point of
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> view :-) but perhaps there could just be a "web-editable" flag supplied
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> by plugins, and things could be changed to respect it.
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>
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> In a way, what you really want for metadata is to have it in the album
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> page, so you can batch-edit the whole lot by editing one file (this
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> does mean that editing the album necessarily causes each of its viewers
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> to be rebuilt, but in practice that happens anyway). -s
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>
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>> Yes, that would make some sense.. It also allows putting one image in
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>> two albums, with different caption etc. (Maybe for different audiences.)
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>>
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>> It would probably be possible to add a new dependency type, and thus
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>> make ikiwiki smart about noticing whether the metadata has actually
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>> changed, and only update those viewers where it has. But the dependency
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>> type stuff is still very new, and not plugin friendly .. so only just
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>> possible, --[[Joey]]
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----
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Trying to use the "special extension" design:
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Suppose that each viewer is a JPEG-or-GIF-or-something, with extension
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".albumimage". We have a gallery "memes" with three images, badger,
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mushroom and snake.
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> An alternative might be to use ".album.jpg", and ".album.gif"
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> etc as the htmlize extensions. May need some fixes to ikiwiki to support
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> that. --[[Joey]]
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Files in git repo:
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* index.mdwn
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* memes.mdwn
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* memes/badger.albumimage (a renamed JPEG)
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* memes/badger/comment_1._comment
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* memes/badger/comment_2._comment
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* memes/mushroom.albumimage (a renamed GIF)
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* memes/mushroom.meta (sidecar file with metadata)
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* memes/snake.albumimage (a renamed video)
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Files in web content:
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* index.html
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* memes/index.html
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* memes/96x96-badger.jpg (from img)
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* memes/96x96-mushroom.jpg (from img)
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* memes/96x96-snake.jpg (from img, hacked up to use totem-video-thumbnailer :-) )
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* memes/badger/index.html (including comments)
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* memes/badger.jpg
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* memes/mushroom/index.html
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* memes/mushroom.gif
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* memes/snake/index.html
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* memes/snake.mov
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ispage("memes/badger") (etc.) must be true, to make the above rendering
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happen, so albumimage needs to be a "page" extension.
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To not confuse other plugins, album should probably have a filter() hook
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that turns .albumimage files into HTML? That'd probably be a reasonable
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way to get them rendered anyway.
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> I guess that is needed to avoid preprocess, scan, etc trying to process
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> the image, as well as eg, smiley trying to munge it in sanitize.
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> --[[Joey]]
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do=edit&page=memes/badger needs to not put the JPG in a text box: somehow
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divert or override the normal edit CGI by telling it that .albumimage
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files are not editable in the usual way?
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Every image needs to depend on, and link to, the next and previous images,
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which is a bit tricky. In previous thinking about this I'd been applying
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the overly strict constraint that the ordered sequence of pages in each
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album must be known at scan time. However, that's not *necessarily* needed:
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the album and each photo could collect an unordered superset of dependencies
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at scan time, and at rebuild time that could be refined to be the exact set,
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in order.
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> Why do you need to collect this info at scan time? You can determine it
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> at build time via `pagespec_match_list`, surely .. maybe with some
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> memoization to avoid each image in an album building the same list.
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> I sense that I may be missing a subtelty though. --[[Joey]]
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Perhaps restricting to "the images in an album A must match A/*"
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would be useful; then the unordered superset could just be "A/*". Your
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"albums via tags" idea would be nice too though, particularly for feature
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parity with e.g. Facebook: "photos of Joey" -> "tags/joey and albumimage()"
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maybe?
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If images are allowed to be considered to be part of more than one album,
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then a pretty and usable UI becomes harder - "next/previous" expands into
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"next photo in holidays/2009/germany / next photo in tagged/smcv / ..."
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and it could get quite hard to navigate. Perhaps next/previous links could
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be displayed only for the closest ancestor (in URL space) that is an
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album, or something?
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> Ugh, yeah, that is a problem. Perhaps wanting to support that was just
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> too ambitious. --[[Joey]]
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Requiring renaming is awkward for non-technical Windows/Mac users, with both
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platforms' defaults being to hide extensions; however, this could be
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circumvented by adding some sort of hook in attachment to turn things into
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a .albumimage at upload time, and declaring that using git/svn/... without
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extensions visible is a "don't do that then" situation :-)
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> Or extend `pagetype` so it can do the necessary matching without
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> renaming. Maybe by allowing a subdirectory to be specified along
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> with an extension. (Or allow specifying a full pagespec,
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> but I hesitate to seriously suggest that.) --[[Joey]]
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Ideally attachment could also be configured to upload into a specified
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underlay, so that photos don't have to be in your source-code control
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(you might want that, but I don't!).
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Things that would be nice, and are probably possible:
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* make the "Edit page" link on viewers divert to album-specific CGI instead
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of just failing or not appearing
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* some way to deep-link to memes/badger.jpg with a wikilink, without knowing a
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priori that it's secretly a JPEG
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Joey Hess