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@ -222,7 +222,7 @@ ShavedByBob.mdwn:
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Does ShavedByBob.mdwn include itself?
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(Yeah - in IkiWiki currently links are included by include, but the idea holds. I had a good example a while back, but I can't think of it right now.)
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(Yeah - in IkiWiki currently links are *not* included by include, but the idea holds. I had a good example a while back, but I can't think of it right now.)
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sigh.
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@ -232,6 +232,36 @@ sigh.
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> to determine what metadata, pages, etc they depend on. It is indeed
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> tricky to do. More thoughts on influence lists a bit below. --[[Joey]]
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>> The big part of what makes this tricky is that there may be cycles in the
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>> dependency graph. This can lead to situations where the result is just not
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>> well defined. This is what I was trying to get at above. -- [[Will]]
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>>> Hmm, I'm not seeing cycles be a problem, at least with the current
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>>> pagespec terms. --[[Joey]]
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>>>> Oh, they're not with current pagespec terms. But this is really close to extending to handle
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>>>> functional pagespecs, etc. And I think I'd like to think about that now.
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>>>>
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>>>> Having said that, I don't want to hold you up - you seem to be making progress. The best is
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>>>> the enemy of the good, etc. etc.
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>>>>
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>>>> For my part, I'm imagining we have two more constructs in IkiWiki:
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>>>>
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>>>> * A map directive that actually wikilinks to the pages it links to, and
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>>>> * A `match_sharedLink(pageX)` matching function that matches pageY if both pageX and pageY each have links to any same third page, pageZ.
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>>>>
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>>>> With those two constructs, one page changing might change the set of pages included in a map somewhere, which might then change the set of pages matched by some other pagespec, which might then...
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>>>>
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>>>> --[[Will]]
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>>>>> I think that should be supported by [[bugs/transitive_dependencies]].
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>>>>> At least in the current implementation, which considers each page
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>>>>> that is rendered to be changed, and rebuilds pages that are dependent
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>>>>> on it, in a loop. An alternate implementation, which could be faster,
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>>>>> is to construct a directed graph and traverse it just once. Sounds
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>>>>> like that would probably not support what you want to do.
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>>>>> --[[Joey]]
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----
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### Link dependencies
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@ -273,7 +303,7 @@ One way to fix this is to include with each dependency, a list of pages
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that currently match it. If the list changes, the dependency is triggered.
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Should be doable, but may involve more work than
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currently. Consider that a dependency on "bugs/*" currently
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currently. Consider that a dependency on `bugs/*` currently
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is triggered by just checking until *one* page is found to match it.
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But to store the list, *every* page would have to be tried against it.
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Unless the list can somehow be intelligently updated, looking at only the
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@ -305,10 +335,53 @@ changes, is needed.
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I'm using this term for the concept of a list of pages whose modification
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can indirectly influence what pages a pagespec matches.
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> Trying to make a formal definition of this: (Note, I'm using the term sets rather than lists, but they're roughly equivalent)
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>
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> * Let the *matching set* for a pagespec be the set of existing pages that the pagespec matches.
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> * Let a *influence set* for a pagespec be the set of all pages, *p*, whose alteration might:
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> * cause the pagespec to include or exclude a page other than *p*, or
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> * cause the pagespec to exclude *p*.
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>
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>> \[Will snipped some stuff and edited the formal definition]
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>
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> --[[Will]]
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>> I appreciate the formalism!
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>>
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>> Only existing pages need to be in these sets, because if a page is added
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>> in the future, the existing dependency code will always test to see
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>> if it matches. So it will be in the maching set (or not) at that point.
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>>
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>>> Hrm, I agree with you in general, but I think I can come up with nasty counter-examples. What about a pagespec
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>>> of "!backlink(bogus)" where the page bogus doesn't exist? In this case, the page 'bogus' needs to be in the influence
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>>> set even though it doesn't exist.
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>>>
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>>>> I think you're right, this is a case that the current code is not
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>>>> handling. Actually, I made all the pagespecs return influences
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>>>> even if the influence was not present or did not match. But, it
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>>>> currently only records influences as dependencies when a pagespec
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>>>> successfully matches. Now I'm sure that is wrong, and I've removed
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>>>> that false optimisation. I've updated some of the below. --[[Joey]]
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>>>
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>>> Also, I would really like the formalism to include the whole dependency system, not just any additions to it. That will make
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>>> the whole thing much easier to reason about.
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>>
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>> The problem with your definition of direct influence set seems to be
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>> that it doesn't allow `link()` and `title()` to have as an indirect
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>> influence, the page that matches. But I'm quite sure we need those.
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>> --[[Joey]]
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>>> I see what you mean. Does the revised definition capture this effectively?
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>>> The problem with this revised definition is that it still doesn't match your examples below.
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>>> My revised definition will include pretty much all currently matching pages to be in the influence list
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>>> because deletion of any of them would cause a change in which pages are matched - the removal problem.
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>>> -- [[Will]]
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#### Examples
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* The pagespec "created_before(foo)" has an influence list that contains foo.
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The removal or (re)creation of foo changes what pages match it.
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The removal or (re)creation of foo changes what pages match it. Note that
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this is true even if the pagespec currently fails to match.
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* The pagespec "foo" has an empty influence list. This is because a
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modification/creation/removal of foo directly changes what the pagespec
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@ -318,20 +391,44 @@ can indirectly influence what pages a pagespec matches.
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Avoiding including every page in the wiki into its influence list is
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very important!
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>>> So, why don't the above influence lists contain the currently matched pages?
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>>> Don't you need this to handle the removal problem? -- [[Will]]
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>>>> The removal problem is slightly confusingly named, since it does not
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>>>> affect pages that were matched by a glob and have been removed. Such
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>>>> pages can be handled without being influences, because ikiwiki knows
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>>>> they have been removed, and so can still match them against the
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>>>> pagespec, and see they used to match; and thus knows that the
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>>>> dependency has triggered.
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>>>>
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>>>> Maybe the thing to do is consider this an optimisation, where such
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>>>> pages are influences, but ikiwiki is able to implicitly find them,
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>>>> so they do not need to be explicitly stored. --[[Joey]]
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* The pagespec "title(foo)" has an influence list that contains every page
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that currently matches it. A change to any matching page can change its
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title. Why is that considered an indirect influence? Well, the pagespec
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might be used in a presence dependency, and so its title changing
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would not directly affect the dependency.
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title, making it not match any more, and so the list is needed due to the
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removal problem. A page that does not have a matching title is not an
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influence, because modifying the page to change its title directly
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changes what the pagespec matches.
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* The pagespec "backlink(index)" has an influence list
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that contains index (because a change to index changes the backlinks).
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Note that this is true even if the backlink currently fails.
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* The pagespec "link(done)" has an influence list that
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contains every page that it matches. A change to any matching page can
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remove a link and make it not match any more, and so the list is needed
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due to the removal problem.
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>> Why doesn't this include every page? If I change a page that doesn't have a link to
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>> 'done' to include a link to 'done', then it will now match... or is that considered a
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>> 'direct match'? -- [[Will]]
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>>> The regular dependency calculation code will check if every changed
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>>> page matches every dependency. So it will notice the link was added.
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>>> --[[Joey]]
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#### Low-level Calculation
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One way to calculate a pagespec's influence would be to
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@ -379,17 +476,89 @@ Given that, the `backlink` will always be evalulated, and will put index
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onto the influence list. If we combine the influences from each
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successful match, we get the right result.
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> This is implemented, seems to work ok. --[[Joey]]
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> This is implemented, seems to work ok. --[[Joey]]
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> `or` short-circuits too, but the implementation correctly uses `|`,
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> which I assume is what you meant. --[[smcv]]
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>> Er, yeah. --[[Joey]]
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----
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What about: "!link(done)"
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Specifically, I want to make sure it works now that I've changed
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`match_link` to only return a page as an influence if it *does*
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link to done.
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So, when matching against page P, that does not link to done,
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there are no influences, and the pagespec matches. If P is later
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changed to add a link to done, then the dependency resolver will directly
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notice that.
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When matching against page P, that does link to done, P
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is an influence, and the pagespec does not match. If P is later changed
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to not link to done, the influence will do its job.
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Looks good!
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----
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Here is a case where this approach has some false positives.
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"bugs/* and link(patch)"
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This finds as influences all pages that link to patch, even
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if they are not under bugs/, and so can never match.
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To fix this, the influence calculation would need to consider boolean
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operators. Currently, this turns into roughly:
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`FailReason() & SuccessReason(patch)`
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Let's say that the glob instead returns a HardFailReason, which when
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ANDed with another object, drops their influences. (But when ORed, combines
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them.) Fixes the above, but does it always work?
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"(bugs/* or link(patch)) and backlink(index)" =>
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`( HardFailReason() | SuccessReason(page) ) & SuccessReason(index)`` =>
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`SuccessReason(page & SuccessReason(index)` =>
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SuccessReason(page, index) => right
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"(bugs/* and link(patch)) or backlink(index)" =>
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`( HardFailReason() & SuccessReason(page) ) | SuccessReason(index)`` =>
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`HardFailReason() | SuccessReason(index)` =>
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`SuccessReason(index)` => right
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"!bugs/* and link(patch)" =>
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`HardFailReason() | SuccessReason(bugs/foo)` =>
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`HardFailReason()` => right
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#### High-level Calculation and Storage
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Calculating the full influence list for a pagespec requires trying to match
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it against every page in the wiki.
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Naively calculating the full influence list for a pagespec requires trying
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to match it against every page in the wiki. I'd like to avoid doing such
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expensive matching redundantly.
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I'd like to avoid doing such expensive matching redundantly. So add a
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`pagespec_match_all`, which returns a list of all pages in the whole
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wiki that match the pagespec, and also adds the pagespec as a dependency,
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and while it's at it, calculates and stores the influence list.
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It may be possible, for some types of pagespecs, to just try matching a
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single, arbitrary page against it, and know the full influence list has
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been obtained. It seems to be that case that if a pagespec has any
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influences, matching any page will return at least one. So if none are
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returned, we can skip trying other pages.
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If the influence list does not include the page that was tried, we know
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that the pagespec does not things like `link()` and `title()`, that are
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influenced by the page's own content. So it *might* be safe to not try
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matching any more pages in this case too. I think it would work for all
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current pagespec terms. There might be a hypothetical term where this
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optimisation doesn't work. We could add a special case to ensure it can
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work: If a term declares it is unfluenced by "", then it means it is
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always influenced by the matching page.
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Anyway, this seems worth doing: Add a `pagespec_match_all`, which returns a
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list of all pages in the whole wiki that match the pagespec, and also adds
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the pagespec as a dependency, and while it's at it, calculates and stores
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the influence list.
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It could have an optional sort parameter, and limit parameter, to control
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how many items to return and the sort order. So when inline wants to
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@ -414,7 +583,7 @@ it's calculated more smartly, and is added automatically.
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> I've implemented influence calculation in `add_depends`. As expected,
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> it means rather a lot more work, and makes some things much slower.
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> Optimisation via `pagespec_match_depends` next.. --[[Joey]]
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> Optimisations next.. --[[Joey]]
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#### Influence types
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@ -422,3 +591,10 @@ Note that influences can also have types, same as dependency types.
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For example, "backlink(foo)" has an influence of foo, of type links.
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"created_before(foo)" also is influenced by foo, but it's a presence
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type. Etc.
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> This is an interesting concept that I hadn't considered. It might
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> allow significant computational savings, but I suspect will be tricky
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> to implement. -- [[Will]]
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>> It was actually really easy to implement it, assuming I picked the right
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>> dependency types of course. --[[Joey]]
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